In this episode, Salvatore Manzi, Leadership Communications Coach, discusses “It’s Not What You Say, But How You Say It.”
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Learn how to listen to The Hospital Finance Podcast® on your mobile device.Highlights of this episode include:
- How leaders can communicate clearly when the data is still evolving or incomplete
- What communication traps financially minded leaders can fall into
- How we can ensure our presence matches our message
- Powerful way to connect financial strategy to patient outcomes
- “Name the shared interest”
- What the most overlooked communication move that could shift the dynamic
- One practice daily/weekly recommended for finance professionals to strengthen their communication
Kelly Wisness: Hi, this is Kelly Wisness. Welcome back to the award-winning Hospital Finance Podcast. We’re pleased to welcome Salvatore Manzi. Salvatore is a leadership communications coach with over 20 years of experience helping executives, entrepreneurs, and leaders amplify their influence and impact. Salvatore has coached leaders presenting at the United Nations, guided investors in raising $100 million over their goal, and helped biopharma scientists present their work globally. With emphasis on frameworks, principles, and techniques, Salvatore empowers leaders to connect authentically and navigate high-stakes conversations with confidence. He’s passionate about fostering collaborative team environments through effective communication. In this episode, we’re discussing It’s Not What You Say, But How You Say It. Welcome, and thank you for joining us, Salvatore.
Salvatore Manzi: Thank you so much. It’s great to be here, Kelly.
Kelly: Well, thank you. Let’s go ahead and jump in. So, in high stake environments like hospital finance, how can leaders communicate clearly when the data is still evolving or incomplete?
Salvatore: That is such a great question because there’s too many times that we want to present the data, but we can’t get all of the facts complete when we present it. So, there’s a real quick, simple framework to use, and that is, here’s what I know, here’s what I don’t know. It’s a simple, quick framework that allows you to still demonstrate leadership, even when you don’t have all of the facts. And this is part of a larger framework, the uncertainty framework, which is a four-step process for speaking during times of uncertainty, because what people really don’t need is a concrete answer. What they need is a leader they can follow. So, a simple framework such as just the sentence, “Here’s what we know, here’s what we don’t know,” allows you to speak effectively without knowing all of the certainty.
Kelly: Wow, thank you for that. So, what communication traps do financially minded leaders fall into, especially when translating complex insights to non-financial stakeholders?
Salvatore: I love this question because I myself am a data analytical person. And as I grew up in the public speaking world, I realized that my people are the engineers, analysts, scientists, the data-driven leaders who are just wanting to communicate lots of data and numbers and details. And here’s the thing, when a data person is talking to a data person, it’s really easy. It’s zeros and ones, is, I get the story, but data leaders, and perhaps you’re listening to this and thinking this is you, you’re able to look at the numbers and make a story. You don’t need somebody else to paint the picture for you. You can read the numbers and you can see the story that’s being told. Non-data-driven leaders can’t normally see that as effectively. So, the rule of thumb is meaning over metrics. And here’s what I mean by that. The brain is a meaning-making machine, not a precision recording device. So, the brain is going to prioritize relevance over precision. You might have all the best data in the world, but if they can’t relate meaning to it, it’s not going to– it’s not going to connect the dots.
So as a data-driven financial leader, we need to be able to describe the meaning behind what’s actually going on. It’s kind of like– I would describe it as if you were to find a present on your desk when you got back from your lunch. It’s great. You might admire the present. You might even enjoy the present. But if you don’t know who it’s from or what it’s for, it’s just this weird object on your desk. Same thing as if you’re giving data, financial analysis, all the details without explaining what the meaning of that is. It’s missing the relevance. So, when there’s a note on the present that says, “Thanks for all your hard work on that project,” then the present makes sense, then the data makes sense. So, the non-data-driven minded person can actually make sense of all of your beautiful financial analysis. So, meaning over metrics.
Kelly: I love that, and I love that example too. So how do we ensure our presence matches our message, especially on virtual platforms where so much can get lost or misread?
Salvatore: I appreciate this because we all made the shift from in-person to virtual, and it was difficult to get those cues that we’re used to getting in person. We miss about 80% of the body language. We can’t see the faces. We can’t see everything. And what I would offer to anybody that’s out there that’s struggling to feel like the way they’re wanting to be perceived is actually how they’re being perceived, is to consider signal switching. And what I mean by signal switching is to think about what conditioning you’ve had to show up in certain situations. We have all been conditioned through society, organizations, parenting, all these things, and what behaviors to exhibit in different situations. And Deborah Gruenfeld is a researcher at Stanford, came up with the authority markers that determine what shows authority. And this is kind of the heart and science of presence. What you want to do is consider how are you showing up? What are the behaviors? Are you on the agency side where you’re showing full authority, or are you on the relational side, where you’re showing full connectivity?
It’s kind of like going into a room and on one end is a throne, a sovereign throne, and the other end is a group of chairs for kindergartens. You, as a person, know how to sit on either side. You know how to hold court, you know how to sit with the kids at the kids’ table and connect. Knowing how to show up, whether online or in person, knowing how to show up and have presence is choosing the right behaviors for that situation, even when it feels unnatural. So, I go into a lot more detail of this in my book, Clear and Compelling. It’s designed for financial and data-driven leaders. And it’s really about knowing where on that continuum from agency to relational to peg for a particular situation. And it often comes at a place that’s uncomfortable, a place that we’re not used to leading from. So, leadership, in my judgment, is about adjusting to the moment. And right now, that moment is virtual. So, showing up and taking up space, being a little bit more broad in the way we’re communicating online is going to help us have the presence we need for that situation.
Kelly: Wonderful. I’ll share a link to your book there that you mentioned. So, in your experience, what’s a powerful way to connect financial strategy to patient outcomes without sounding forced or marketing-ish?
Salvatore: Metaphors move minds is one of my favorite teaching points, and that is that people can take in a lot of information, but until there’s a picture or an emotion that can associate that picture to something, it’s not going to stick. So, if you’re wanting to connect your financial strategy to patient outcomes, you want to draw a metaphor between the information that you have and the outcome that you anticipate having. And that way people will start to connect and it won’t sound forced either because it will sound natural. I had a client who works at a national healthcare firm. I can’t say which one, but she worked in data, big data, actually. It wasn’t financial, but it was big data. And every time she gave a presentation, it just didn’t go anywhere until she started using metaphors of a Prius versus a gas driven vehicle. And when she started using those metaphors, things started to click, and she went from a manager to a director to senior director to VP to SVP inside of two years, because people started understanding what she was saying. And they started connecting the dots and following her lead, all from using metaphors.
Kelly: Well, that makes a lot of sense. I love metaphors. So, what does it mean to, quote, “name the shared interest”? And how does that change a conversation between finance and clinical leaders?
Salvatore: I appreciate that we’re switching more from when I’m presenting to interacting with somebody one-on-one. And for me, naming the shared interest is, I think, important for financial and data-driven levers because we sometimes assume the other person is on the same page. They’ve read the same data, so they must have similar impressions, but they’re not necessarily going to have those impressions. So, naming the shared interests is in some ways stating the obvious. This is what we both agree on. This is what we both want out of this. It level sets the conversation and eliminates a lot of the potential challenges of the other person not feeling understood or the people moving towards the differing points at some point. So naming the shared interest is really– glue is too strong a word, but it helps to soothe conversations to move in a better direction.
Kelly: No, I love that name, the shared interest. That’s fabulous. So, in meetings filled with tension, say, between finance and clinical ops, what’s the most overlooked communication move that could shift the dynamic?
Salvatore: Kelly, I think we’ve all been there too, because there’s a moment where we’re trying to communicate with somebody, and it doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. And I don’t know if anybody else has been in the situation that I know myself have. Many a relationship that I’ve had to go back and repair because of missing this one key communication principle, and that is you then me. It’s what I call the number one principle of communication. It’s talking about the other person, their perspective, acknowledging what they said, acknowledging what was heard before getting to my agenda, my point, my perspective. When I start with you and talking about you before I get to me, what happens is it starts to create a sense of being heard, seen, respected, felt before shifting. And I would offer that you can use you then me when you’re talking to somebody with whom you have absolutely no agreement. When you can explain to the other person, “Ah, I think I see what’s happening here,” you are seeing the situation like this because what you think is important is this. And I would offer, if we could do this, and by pivoting, by starting with what you see them, their feelings or thoughts or concerns or fears about a particular situation. Before getting to your perspective, it helps that other person’s defense is lower, and they’re able to actually hear and process what you want to say. So you then me, number one principle of communication.
Kelly: You then me. I’m going to apply that, I promise. You coach executives before big talks. So what are the first three things you look at when someone says, “Help me sound like a leader.”
Salvatore: I appreciate this conversation, and I think everyone out there has had a moment where we didn’t feel, especially, we were the leader of the moment. I mean, we’ve all had an imposter. I mean, anybody who has a shred of humility and is not a narcissist is going to have a bit of imposter syndrome show up at some point. So, when somebody asks me, “Help me sound like a leader when I’m up in front of people speaking,” there’s a million different avenues to find out what is it that that person feels is keeping them from becoming that leader that they imagine. And I usually have them give me a demonstration of their speaking abilities, and I break it down into three categories. Number one, content. Is their content organized in a way that’s memorable, sticky, processable?
Number two, their delivery. Is their delivery congruent with their message? Is the way they’re saying things aligned with what they’re trying to say so that there is a full 3D perspective being presented. And third is the presence. What are the beliefs, the experiences? What are the things that have really shaped the way that person shows up in the situation that are either helping them feel resourceful or holding them back? And usually when someone says, “Help me sound more like a leader,” we’re going to be working around principles, around presence. All communication is contextual, depends on who you’re talking to, what you’re talking about, and the environment in which you are talking. And identifying what is driving the way you show up in a particular situation and where your triggers are, and then reframing past stories or beliefs enables a person to start showing up more as the authentic leader they want to be.
Kelly: Wow, thank you for sharing those three things with us. And I love that. I know in my own career…wanting to get that help to sound like a leader. So many healthcare leaders are introverts or data-driven thinkers. How do you help them find their authentic communication style without becoming someone they’re not?
Salvatore: Yeah, I appreciate this because I myself am an introvert. And when I began public speaking, I realized that most public speaking training is geared towards helping extroverts shape their charisma, like mold themselves into better communicators. There weren’t a lot of tools for us introverts. And most – I wouldn’t say most – many data-driven financial analysts, these people tend to be more on the introverted side. And I would offer that you don’t have to necessarily become a different person. You might need to fake it till you make it a little bit. I would offer two things. Number one, harness your natural abilities. Number one, introverts tend to be more observant and they tend to think before they speak. So, keep those two things and hone them and keep using them. But the tool I would offer is break the seal early. The longer we wait to speak in a meeting, the higher the pressure becomes, and we tend to overthink. So, within the first five minutes of any meeting, get your voice in there, make a comment so that you can start being felt and heard in that meeting. And you can always keep exploring your authentic voice as you are doing so. So, it doesn’t have to come off fake, but it might feel a little unnatural as you push yourself into it.
Kelly: I can totally relate to that as I am an introvert as well, and it is a struggle. I know that.
Yeah, exactly. So, what’s one practice daily or weekly that you recommend for finance professionals to strengthen their communication presence over time?
Salvatore: The easiest one, I’m going to click back to the metaphors move minds because that is a habit that if we data driven people, analysts, and financial analysts can constantly use pictures and visuals and emotions to describe what we’re used to seeing in data, we’re going to be better able to communicate with others. So, every day, pick up an object– just do it right now. Find an object around you, pick it up, and tell me how is your work like that object? Every day, once a day, grab an object, use it as a metaphor for your work or the project or the thing that you’re working on now, and you will strengthen that tool of making metaphors and easily move further into better communication with everything.
Kelly: Well, I’m going to repeat what you said, “The metaphors move minds,” because I just love that. Well, thank you so much, Salvatore, for sharing all of this wonderful information with us on It’s Not What You Say, But How You Say It. And so, if a listener wants to learn more, contact you to discuss this topic further. How best can they do that?
Salvatore: Thank you. I’d love to hear from anyone out there who has had any challenge getting their data to be accepted, understood, and moved upon in meetings. You can find me at salvatoremanzi.com, or you can go to my website for my book, clearandcompellingplaybook.com. You’ll get access to all of the resources I have for data-driven financial leaders out there as well. clearandcompellingplaybook.com.
Kelly: Wonderful. Thank you for providing that. And thank you all for joining us for this episode of The Hospital Finance Podcast. Until next time…
[music] This concludes today’s episode of The Hospital Finance Podcast. For show notes and additional resources to help you protect and enhance revenue at your hospital, visit besler.com/podcasts. The Hospital Finance Podcast is a production of BESLER | SMART ABOUT REVENUE, TENACIOUS ABOUT RESULTS.
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